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2008 Proposal (AJF-1) Rescind CDI/TT Chair Term Limits

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Andrew Forrest
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2008 Proposal (AJF-1) Rescind CDI/TT Chair Term Limits

Post by Andrew Forrest » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:27 am

Proposal:
Rescind the term limits for the Driver's Ed/Time Trial Chairman and Chief Driving Instructor: Eliminate rules 2.1T (2) and (5) which read:
2. Driver's Ed/Time Trial Chairman shall serve no longer than Three years. (Reasoning: to encourage change and to have a set time of change.)
5. The Time Trial Chief Driving Instructor (CDI) shall serve no longer than Three years. (Reasoning: to encourage change and to have a set time of change.)
Rationale:
This is a volunteer club and it is rare for election or appointment to a position to be contested. It seems pointless to arbitrarily limit the participation of a member who is presumably willing and able to contribute -- especially when the club's Board of Directors has the absolute power to override assignments already. (Note: if the inclusion of rule 2.1T (2) in this proposal is deemed a conflict of interest [the DE/TT Chair is making the proposal], then the proposal should be read to apply to the CDI only.)
Andrew Forrest
2009-2017 GGR PCA Club Race Registrar GGRRaceReg@gmail.com
2015 GGR Vice President GGRVicePresident@gmail.com
2010-2014 GGR Webmaster webmaster@pca-ggr.org
Past GGR Driver's Ed/Time Trial Chair (2006 - 2008)

Zone7Rep(Larry Sharp)
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Post by Zone7Rep(Larry Sharp) » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:23 am

Lol Andrew it is a conflict of interest ... I am smiling as i write this .. But yeah you are Chairman and your asking to keep going is a conflict of interest.. cant you get someone else to submit it?... I do respectfully comment that this rule has a reason to keep the club moving forward and making sure everyone enjoys the club atmosphere. The rule has a not so good past and is there for a reason to avoid issues that have happened in the past that hurt the Region.
1993 RS America
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1974 911 Carrera (resides in Australia)
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1974 914-6 GT (resides in San Luis obispo)

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Dan Thompson
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Post by Dan Thompson » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:52 am

Hmmm?

conflict you say? Isn't it a conflict everytime someone makes a suggestion to change a rule that directly effects their classed car?

:? :?
Dan Thompson
GGR DE/TT/CR Racecontrol

Andrew Forrest
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I'll abstain

Post by Andrew Forrest » Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:58 pm

Larry, instead of offering to drop part of this proposal I should have offered what I now offer which is that, as a voting DEC member, I'll abstain from the vote on the part of this proposal that affects the term limit on my own office.

Notwithstanding all the excellent arguments for term limits in principle, I'm trying to avoid changing both the TT Chair AND the CDI at the same time as well as trying to make the office of TT Chair more attractive by being able to offer, should the new chair wish it, a fully trained and capable CDI such as Gary is.

[Dan's right too, Congress would never get a pay raise if Robert's Rules of Order barred one from voting on an issue affecting themselves.]
Andrew Forrest
2009-2017 GGR PCA Club Race Registrar GGRRaceReg@gmail.com
2015 GGR Vice President GGRVicePresident@gmail.com
2010-2014 GGR Webmaster webmaster@pca-ggr.org
Past GGR Driver's Ed/Time Trial Chair (2006 - 2008)

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Claude Leglise
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Post by Claude Leglise » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:39 pm

Guys,

I don't know that I would be terribly concerned about the perceived conflict of interest. There is no outrageous pay package to generate a conflict. And I think the folks in various positions of responsibility in the club accumulate a lot of personal knowledge so it is only natural that they come up with ideas for changes. This applies to Andrew in this case and to many others.

That said, about the specific proposal to rescind the term limits, I suggest we think about what is best for the club in the long run, way past our own current personal involvement. We all recall the circumstances that led to the term limits being put in place. At the time, many felt that having a mechanism to encourage a regular change of the guard would keep the club supplied with new leaders and new ideas. My personal view is that this is still a valid point. On the other hand, we all know that volunteers are hard to find, and that knowledge matters, in particular in the area of competition. Removing an experienced TT Chair or CDI to replace them with relatively clueless individuals is a bad outcome.

So, I suggest we consider a middle ground as follows. Keep the term limits as they are, and allow the board to make exceptions annually if it is felt that keeping the same individual in a position is the right thing to do.

My personal thoughts.

Claude

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Dan Thompson
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Post by Dan Thompson » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:42 pm

Claude Leglise wrote:Guys,

I don't know that I would be terribly concerned about the perceived conflict of interest. There is no outrageous pay package to generate a conflict. And I think the folks in various positions of responsibility in the club accumulate a lot of personal knowledge so it is only natural that they come up with ideas for changes. This applies to Andrew in this case and to many others.

That said, about the specific proposal to rescind the term limits, I suggest we think about what is best for the club in the long run, way past our own current personal involvement. We all recall the circumstances that led to the term limits being put in place. At the time, many felt that having a mechanism to encourage a regular change of the guard would keep the club supplied with new leaders and new ideas. My personal view is that this is still a valid point. On the other hand, we all know that volunteers are hard to find, and that knowledge matters, in particular in the area of competition. Removing an experienced TT Chair or CDI to replace them with relatively clueless individuals is a bad outcome.

So, I suggest we consider a middle ground as follows. Keep the term limits as they are, and allow the board to make exceptions annually if it is felt that keeping the same individual in a position is the right thing to do.

My personal thoughts.

Claude
If the board were to take such situations on a case by case basis, I think this could be the best option. :)
Dan Thompson
GGR DE/TT/CR Racecontrol

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David Leong
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Post by David Leong » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:03 pm

I do not think it is a good idea to repeal the term limits. They were put in place for a valid reason, and that reason has not changed. Claude eloquently worded it in his post, so no need to repeat it again. However, this is how I always had envisioned it.

The TT chair is easily a 2 person job, so my vision was to have the TT team overlap and rotate 1 person each year. One of the main reasons, is that the scheduling and planning all happens between August and December of the preceeding season, so by the time a new chair starts their term, most of the scheduling and planning has already been set in stone, deposits made, etc.

With a rotating 2 person team, one member is on their first year, and the other team member is on their second year. The first year member gets to do a majority of the planning and "eats their own dog food" as it may, the following year. The first year team member, now graduates to the 2nd year part of the team, and a new first year partner then begins training, and has a seasoned mentor to guide them along the way.
David Leong

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