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2009 Proposal: Remove point deduction for Tiptronic-S Trans.

Use this forum to discuss rule proposals, other than the points proposal, which has its's own forum

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itacud
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2009 Proposal: Remove point deduction for Tiptronic-S Trans.

Post by itacud » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:37 pm

As it is often the case that a modern Tiptronic transmission is capable of faster shifts than a stock double-weight flywheeled manual transmission, the disadvantage in lap times associated with these transmissions on track would be a falicy. In addition, the current generation 997 Turbo tiptronic is advertised as having substantially faster acceleration than the manual transmissioned car. Furthermore, cars which possess automatic mode, electro-hydraulically switched gears via a sequential gearbox with clutch, are capable of much faster gear changes than a convential manual transmission with human actuated clutch pedal. It would seem that the 15 point deduction for having an automatic transmision is outdated, as modern auto transmissions pose no performance disadvantage. In fact, some of them pose significant advantages.

Additions:
The newer Tiptronic-s transmissions entered production in 2005 model year cars (except for the carryover 996 Turbo, conceivably.) 2005 and newer Tiptronic-S transmissions should not receive the 15-point deduction that previous model year tiptronics receive.

Additionally, it may be necessary to implement a point penalty for 996 Turbo Tiptronic-S transmissions, and for future PDK twin-clutch auto-transmissions, as well as future model year 6-speed Tiptronic transmissions. These transmissions have significant performance advantages over their manual clutch counterparts.
Last edited by itacud on Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PAUL LARSON
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Re: 2009 Proposal: Remove points deduction for Tiptronic Trans.

Post by PAUL LARSON » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:37 pm

I have a five speed tip box and the manual has a six speed box. If
I had one more gear then I could see things being equal. The tip
also has about 200lbs more weight.
Paul

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itacud
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Re: 2009 Proposal: Remove points deduction for Tiptronic Trans.

Post by itacud » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:21 am

Actually, the weight difference between a manual and tiptronic transmission is only 88lbs, according to the advertized weight figures for the 997 S vs the 997 S Tiptronic. (Admitedly, these advertized weights are not very trustworthy.) But, the real strength of the auto-shifter on track comes down to the speed and ease of shifts. Especially with a stock dual-mass flywheel, the manual transmission does not shift particularly quickly, whereas a tiptronic transmission can keep power flowing to the wheels with greater continuity. This is why a 997 Turbo tiptronic is noticably faster to accelerate than a 997 Turbo manual. In the case of the non-turbo 997s, the tiptronic car may not have a faster 0-60 acceleration, but the performance on track does not suffer the losses associated with older automatic transmissions. The new 6-speed tiptronic transmission in the Cayenne is once again quite a bit quicker to accelerate than the 6-speed manual transmission in the Cayenne - again, due to the inherently faster speed of shifting capable with the tiptronic, and more continuous drive of power to the wheels. One would infer again that the modern 5-speed tiptronic and 6-speed manual are well matched on track.
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johntavernetti
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Re: 2009 Proposal: Remove points deduction for Tiptronic Trans.

Post by johntavernetti » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:50 pm

To the original poster, your supporting argument seems reasonable, but since it only applies to the most recent generation cars, your proposal needs to reflect that in order to have a better chance of passing.

Perhaps this proposal could be modified to say that the minus 15 point credit only applies to model years 200x and earlier, where 200x is the last year of the older/dumber tiptronic transmission (I think this is denoted in factory-speak as the transition from "tiptronic" to "tiptronic S").

Just my $.02.

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itacud
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Re: 2009 Proposal: Remove points deduction for Tiptronic Trans.

Post by itacud » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:31 pm

Actually, that's a very good point. I diddn't mean to imply that early generation tiptronics would be as good (or better) than 6-speed manual transmissions. I shall ammend the post! =)
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