2010 rules proposals

Use this forum to discuss rule proposals, other than the points proposal, which has its's own forum

Moderators: David Leong, Andrew Forrest

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David Leong
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by David Leong » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:52 am

I want to congratulate John for taking this on, and doing such a good job. Having been there, done that, I fully understand what a monumental task this is.

I also know how difficult it is to respond to everyone, and John's responses have been so thorough, clear and rational, they also deserve accolades.

Good Job
David Leong

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johntavernetti
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by johntavernetti » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:59 am

I just want to highlight this post from Paul. It is excellent.
psmith wrote:Most often, the rules tend to assume someone gets the maximum out of the classified item. Meaning that when you select sway bars, it is assuming the points for something like the Smart Racing or TRG bars. Non-adjustable, but non-stock bars would still get the same points although they would not be as good. Likewise, a comparatively heavy steel tube fixed back seat would gets the same points as a very light (and very costly) carbon fiber race shell. Nearly corded heat cycled out Hoosiers get the same points as brand new ultra grippy ones. Torque biasing differentials get the same points as limited slips. And even with the cars, Targas and Cabs are the same as Coupes.

It largely comes down to how much granularity you wish to include, and it's always a matter of trying to be as complete and fair as possible while still keeping things usable and understandable. Chances are, going to anyone in TT or AX, you'll find plenty of places on a given car where they could do better in the points with a different part of some kind. But either for cost or because the car is street driven or some other reason, many choices get compromised.

As for changes made, I've still found tires make the biggest difference. Though the difference between two kinds of street tires can seem quite small (I had used mostly S02s and TA/KDs back in the days I was running street tires... found the BFGs to be better, but it was a marginal improvement over the Bridgestones in hindsight; fitting Victoracers was a huge jump, and the jump from Victoracers to V710s was also pretty significant). ARBs make a pretty large difference too. For me, other suspension work made a big difference as well, but it took quite a bit adjustment from me as a driver to make it work, and required me to really focus on the small things to get the car to work to it's new capabilities. Not sure if you are in a similar situation, but always worth thinking about those things.

As for the rules overall... looks like I'll be jumping to AX8 this year, although if the car had remained the same as last year I'd of still been in the same class.

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itacud
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by itacud » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:06 pm

Hey John, thanks for pointing out the new powerkit checkbox. I did miss that one! Duly reclassed. =) So now, with 760 points, I'll be up against a 2010 GT3-RS, registered in TT5. Looking forward to that! :D I'm gonna cut a hole in my floor and see if I can kick like a Flinstone, down the front straight.

I get your rational for the wheel points. The results may be skewed on the high side still, but I do understand what you're trying to do.

See you in a few weeks... :wink:
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johntavernetti
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by johntavernetti » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:33 pm

itacud wrote:Hey John, thanks for pointing out the new powerkit checkbox.
No problem, I'm always happy to add to your points. :mrgreen:
itacud wrote: I'll be up against a 2010 GT3-RS, registered in TT5.

Ah, yes our friend's new toy. I've been wondering about that. I notice he forgot to declare item 63 for his PASM suspension (+15 points, taking him to 850). And I wonder, are the stock tires' treadwear rating on that car really 200 or more? I thought it came with MPSC's? If so, he'd be up in TT4 in a heartbeat.
itacud wrote: See you in a few weeks... :wink:
Yes indeed!

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craiglisowski
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by craiglisowski » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:32 pm

Ah so much fun catching up on this thread.. The Partha-John debate :lol: hey guys lets not forget you've left me in TT08, where's the love? If the new house and baby on the way weren't in the picture I'd be looking at some wider wheels to bump up and join you. Good news is I've switched to MPSC's (got them today) and they're a few lbs lighter a corner than those crazy NT-01's. Hopefully more TT08 records will fall this year :mrgreen:

John I just thought of a new project, we need to come up with a handicapping between each class, say 1.5 seconds from TT08 o TT07? Let the debate begin :twisted:

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Dan Thompson
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by Dan Thompson » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:35 pm

you can always run your car up in class, just not down...

got a TT8 car, you are more than welcome to run it in TT7.... :D

my new car would run in the bottom of TT16 :wink:
Dan Thompson
GGR DE/TT/CR Racecontrol

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craiglisowski
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by craiglisowski » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:43 pm

Quick how can I delete Dan's comment about running up a class before John reads this? Dan that is just terrible advice :?

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Dan Thompson
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by Dan Thompson » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:50 pm

No problem Craig....happy to help you out :lol:
Dan Thompson
GGR DE/TT/CR Racecontrol

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johntavernetti
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by johntavernetti » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:32 pm

:D

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itacud
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by itacud » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:18 pm

Haha... Craig, I will happily trade you my 10" wheels, for your 2950lb curb weight! :P That is a 500lb diet, and trade in class, I could use. =)

I love the idea of racing up in class. TT3 looks good. Just a 997 C4S, with 19" "wide" wheels entered... I think I can take it! :D More easily than the 2010 GT3-RS slumming it down in TT5... ;)
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itacud
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by itacud » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:29 pm

This may not be the right place to ask... but, why no Sears Point TT this year? Please say it's not because of any embarrassments handed out last year? :mrgreen:

(prepares for smack-talk retaliation... :D )
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Dan Thompson
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by Dan Thompson » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:17 pm

COST $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Dan Thompson
GGR DE/TT/CR Racecontrol

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itacud
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Re: 2010 rules proposals

Post by itacud » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:36 am

I assumed as much. I heard the club took a big loss there last year. That's really too bad...
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