Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Use this forum to discuss rule proposals, other than the points proposal, which has its's own forum

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Dan Thompson
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Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by Dan Thompson » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:06 am

here are my first two suggestions/proposals for 2012.

section 3.0 Automobiles & Safety
subsection g. add the following: In addition, Porsche Automobiles are defined as having 1) Porsche Chassis, 2) Porsche motor (at least the case), 3) Porsche transmission.

also section 2.2 Safety of Automobiles
add subsection L. to read
Automobiles will have complete body work including but not limited to fenders that fully cover the tire/wheel combination being used. Wider tires will require fender flares to conform to this rule.
Dan Thompson
GGR DE/TT/CR Racecontrol

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johntavernetti
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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by johntavernetti » Wed May 04, 2011 1:09 pm

PROPOSAL #3:
BTW: I'm not advocating this, but I think it deserves to be proposed early so that we can debate its merits:

Classing system for Autocross: Ditch GGR's points system and adopt PCA Natl's AX classes per the Parade Competition Rules (PCRs).

Classing system for Timed Runs: Ditch GGR's point system and adopt a modified version of the classes in the PCRs. The modifications would be as follows: 1) The PCR's "Showroom Stock" categories will be eliminated, meaning entry-level class will be the "Production" categories (with all attendant allowed Production modifications), and 2) The PCR's "Improved" categories (which consolidate cars by engine cylinder-count and displacement) will not be used. Instead cars modified beyond what is allowed in "Production" to what is allowed in "Improved" will simply advance to an "Improved" version of their Production class (e.g. a car in P12 would advance to a new class named I12, avoiding any consolidation by engine type). The PCR's "Modified" classes would remain unchanged (i.e. consolidated by engine type, size & weight).

Reference materials to understand the above:
2011 Parade Competition Rules (PCRs) can be found halfway down the following web page (under the "Parade" heading) (Login required):

http://pca.org/Regions/FormsDocuments.aspx

Further modifications may be necessary. The PCR's also include suggested classing car grouping for Regions of various sizes, which could be considered if the full Parade classing system results in too many classes relative to event attendance levels.

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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by Zone7Rep(Larry Sharp) » Mon May 09, 2011 5:03 pm

So that would mean all showroom stock cars would run in production against R compound tired cars of the same type?

Remember PCA National rules allow suspension tuning and any tires except slick in production classes..
1993 RS America
Grand Prix White
Car #6

1974 911 Carrera (resides in Australia)
Light Yellow

1974 914-6 GT (resides in San Luis obispo)

1987 944 turbo (location unknown)

1979 911SC(Hummers have it)

1972 911T (location unknown)

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johntavernetti
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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by johntavernetti » Tue May 10, 2011 11:28 am

As I mentioned, I'm not really an advocate for this... just want it on the table so it gets a fair hearing.

The national PCR's are written mostly for AX, and would probably work fine for that purpose without change. A street-tire class makes less sense for the Time Trial series since most people who time trial often enough to care about points/classing will be on R-compound rubber anyway. Street tires are just too expensive to destroy every couple weekends at the track. The various DOT R-comps are more commonly used for a reason... they work better and save money in the long run. So it didn't seem like much of a sacrifice to erase the SS class (for TT only, keeping it for AX).

But the real reason I suggested removing the Showroom Stock class for Time Trials was to allow the use of un-consolidated classes at the "Improved" level without increasing the total class-count. Quite a few time trial cars are prepared beyond "Production" levels and under the PCR's all "Improved" 6-cylinder cars above 2.4L would be lumped into just TWO classes (over/under 3.2L). That's not workable for TT (imagine a Boxster S 3.4 vs. a 997GT2RS).

But I am not wedded to any of this. Better ideas are MOST welcome!

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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by Chris » Thu May 12, 2011 5:49 pm

my proposal:

section 3.0 Automobiles & Safety
subsection g. add the following: In addition, Porsche Automobiles are defined as automobiles delivered by Porsche either in the USA or Abroad having at least 50% of the original chassis. Parts of the chassis replaced during restoration or rust repair should match original specifications.

Zone7Rep(Larry Sharp)
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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by Zone7Rep(Larry Sharp) » Fri May 13, 2011 4:20 pm

Chris section 3.0 line G says cars are USA spec models ..are you proposing to let any Porsche that is %49.9990 not Porsche be allowed ? What do you define as Chassis? what is 50 percent?
1993 RS America
Grand Prix White
Car #6

1974 911 Carrera (resides in Australia)
Light Yellow

1974 914-6 GT (resides in San Luis obispo)

1987 944 turbo (location unknown)

1979 911SC(Hummers have it)

1972 911T (location unknown)

Chris
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:18 am
Contact:

Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by Chris » Fri May 13, 2011 4:38 pm

my proposal:

section 3.0 Automobiles & Safety
subsection g. add the following: In addition, Porsche Automobiles are defined as automobiles delivered by Porsche either in the USA or Abroad having at least 50% of the original chassis. Parts of the chassis replaced during restoration or rust repair should match original specifications. The chassis is defined as the bare unibody stripped of all removable parts. Percentage of remaining original material will be calculated by weight.

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Dan Thompson
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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by Dan Thompson » Fri May 13, 2011 4:57 pm

So now we will need scales at each event?
Dan Thompson
GGR DE/TT/CR Racecontrol

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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by Chris » Fri May 13, 2011 5:16 pm

No, we just have to rely on the honor system just like we don't check 2.0 914s for 2056cc engines.

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Dan Thompson
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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by Dan Thompson » Sat May 14, 2011 7:42 pm

You can check anyone by doing a formal written protest and then paying the bond for the tear down to check them....
Dan Thompson
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psmith
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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by psmith » Tue May 17, 2011 11:24 am

I must say I don't think the National Rules seem like a great fit. While uniformity does have certain plusses, I have to say I think for all of our imperfections, GGR's current rules seem much more flexible and better cover a wider variety of Porsches. So I wouldn't be in favor of this change.

I do think it would be good though to get a good sized group together again and go over some further tweaking of the current system. If I remember correctly we had been doing this after 2009 with the idea of a major revamp... and then having to cut short to smaller revisions when the deadline was moved up.

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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by demick » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:29 am

I propose to eliminate the Showroom Stock classes from Autocross.

Every car currently classified in a Showroom stock class could just as easily be classified into one of the AX numbered classes. One of the main reasons for going to a points based class system a few years back was to reduce the number of classes, thereby increasing the number of competetors per class, making the competition within classes more interesting. Showroom stock classes seem do just the opposite, nearly doubling the number of classes - and for no real benefit that I can see.

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Re: Rules proposals for the 2012 season

Post by kpl » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:16 pm

So that would mean all showroom stock cars would run in production against R compound tired cars of the same type?
this already takes place doesn't it. Personally I think the points for tires <100 should be higher.
I propose to eliminate the Showroom Stock classes from Autocross.

Every car currently classified in a Showroom stock class could just as easily be classified into one of the AX numbered classes. One of the main reasons for going to a points based class system a few years back was to reduce the number of classes, thereby increasing the number of competetors per class, making the competition within classes more interesting. Showroom stock classes seem do just the opposite, nearly doubling the number of classes - and for no real benefit that I can see.
I know several people that have stock cars that don't run in the stock classes even though their car is stock, including myself, because either they classed their car online and the system doesn't spit out that option and they just don't know about the stock classes, or they don't want to run in a stock class by themselves.

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