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Mid-engine penalty (for Ax)

Use this forum to discuss the Points Proposal

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Bill Dally
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Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:31 pm
Location: Palo Alto

Mid-engine penalty (for Ax)

Post by Bill Dally » Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:31 pm

Most cars have identical base points for AX and TT. The exception is mid-engine cars. I'm particularly concerned about Boxsters, where a 75 point mid-engine penalty is assessed placing my 250hp 3050lb (dry empty weight) 02 Boxster S in the same class as a 330hp, 3000lb 996 C2. Its bad enough that I have to compete against 993s (with 30 more HP and basically the same weight in N, but putting a Boxster in the same class as a 996 doesn't make sense).

I notice that the penalty is even more eggregious for 914s where a 150pt mid-engine penalty is assessed for a 2.0L (doubling the base points of the car) and a 125pt penalty is assessed for a 1.7-8L.

This high mid-engine Ax penalty seems quite unfair - particularly when we have seen several recent courses with fairly long straights that convert HP/Wt to lower times.

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Dan Thompson
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Location: Auburn, CA

Agree with Bill

Post by Dan Thompson » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:52 am

Both of your questions are valid, Bill.
The unfortunate answer will be look at the overall results...
Boxsters and 914s usually run near the top at AX if they are preparred as well as your Boxster.
Even stock Boxsters seem to do well at certain venues and configurations.
Your concerns are more valid for the TT series.
As far as pure stock classes. With the points proposal...a thing of the past.

I am still waiting for a reply about where the points break will be for roll bars being required.

I am not sure this forum will last long since there don't seem to be many questions or answers forthcoming.

A valiant effort, but I think most folks tend to congregate on the boards that more directly relate to their particular car model or range.

It would be nice to see a lot more GGR folks on this board.

Doesn't anyone have anything to say about our rules for next season????
No one will say a thing until after the voting is done and then it will be too late.

There have been no alterations, adjustments, on going tweaks etc.
Where has the Adhoc comm. gone?

What we currently have is exactly what was presented last year and we were promised some "tweaks" to several of the areas of concern. Namely the Wheels chart, fuel additives, points assesed for some cars for the same modification should be of lesser or greater value depending on the car type.
140# springs being given the same points as 600# springs etc...

Dan Thompson
GGR DE/TT/CR Racecontrol

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Bill Dally
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:31 pm
Location: Palo Alto

Mid-engine is not that much better at Ax

Post by Bill Dally » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:49 am


While Boxsters and 914s do well at Ax, so do well-set-up early 911s. Larry Sharp and Terry Zaccone are usually in the top few. Well set up 993s - like Boris' will outrun a Boxster-S.

A well set up 911 will do as well on a skid pad as a Boxster or 914. A small penalty might be appropriate (say 15 points), but not 75 or 150 points. Its certainly not worth the same amount as the difference between sticky and non-sticky tires.

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Location: San Anselmo, CA

Post by dtfastbear » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:43 pm

Again, sorry for the radio silence, Dan. We haven't been actively monitoring this forum, as it seemed to get little action.

Several of the tweeks you asked for are in the proposal, some are not.

Part of the reason that we've made few modifications is because the parallel results have turned out very good.

I, too, hope that more people get engaged to discuss the rules proposals (not just the big one). Now that we have more data and results, I hope that the discussions can be grounded on facts rather than conjecture. If there isn't much discussion, I fear that many will just cry that the proposal was railroaded through, when in reality, everyone who participates in the series has a voice and should make their opinions heard.

It would be a shame for a vocal minority on either side be the reason the rules pass or don't pass.

Faster than the average bear...

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