Rules proposal for 2015

Use this forum to discuss rule proposals, other than the points proposal, which has its's own forum

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Andrew Blyholder
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 9:34 am
Location: Richmond, CA

Rules proposal for 2015

Post by Andrew Blyholder » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:47 pm

This is your first notice to start getting your suggestions and proposals for 2015 rules changes ready.

I haven't figured our the exact schedule for deadlines and meeting dates for this process. I'm in the process of working that out and will post a schedule soon.

Andrew Blyholder
GGR Autocross Co-Chair

Andrew Blyholder
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 9:34 am
Location: Richmond, CA

Re: Rules proposal for 2015

Post by Andrew Blyholder » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:54 pm

Update on rules change calendar:

Please submit rules changes to me at autocross@pca-ggr.org on or before August 29th. All rules change proposals will be published in the September Nugget.

You can also post rules change proposals on the GGR bulletin board under the Rules Proposals section if you wish additional discussion of your proposal.

Rules change proposals will be discussed at the September open board meeting, September 17th, 6 pm. Location to be announced. Please plan on attending if you wish to argue for or against a proposal.

Andrew Blyholder
GGR Autocross Co-Chair

Ken Jones
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: Pleasant Hill

PAX factors vs. Street Stock classes...

Post by Ken Jones » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:26 pm

I propose either:

(A) Eliminating the Street Stock classes from the PAX results as they are incompatible with the points classification system used by GGR. Street Stock factors are very favorable vs. having the same cars pointed out via the classification system.

OR

(B) Have a duel system upon registration where the cars are classed for both Street Stock (only for those wanting SS) and the Points Classification system (which would be the basis for determining PAX factors). So, if they don't bother to use the points system, they don't show up on the PAX results.

Since the PAX numbers and their factors are calculated and made up, it's not the end of the earth if we do nothing again and say who cares - however, it exists, it's a kick to see the results and there are actually many people "interested". Therefore, I'd like to make it more equitable and update it.

Ken Jones
#44, '73 911 E Targa - AX10

Ken Jones
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: Pleasant Hill

Autocross Points Classification Tire Points Update...

Post by Ken Jones » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:21 pm

Apparently, the President believes that this is the place to view proposed changes to 2015. I had already forwarded this proposal to the AX Chair for inclusion in the Board Meeting discussions for consideration of changes/updates based on the above instructions. The Board will push the Sept. time table into early October according to the latest email flash newsletter for Sept.

I'm on the side of raising points for certain tires which will still fall into unique points categories as before.

In the street category, I think we must move the threshold from 200+ back to where it was (at 201+) for no points penalty. That takes care of fully 1/3 of the top street tires used - namely: BFG Rival, Bridgestone RE11+ and Dunlop ZII+.... all sitting at 200. So, no mystery about street, just trying to eliminate the "cheater" tires. The remaining question is about points for those 101-200 DOTs. It's now at 25pts and I'd like to see 50pts(~1/2 class bump). The nebulous zone at 50 - 100 DOTs is at 50pts which should go up to 100pts (~1 class bump).

In the R-compound category, I'd like to take smaller steps than some. I'm supporting an increase for the less than 49 DOT rated tires from 100pts up to 150pts (~1 class bump, except AX4 and above - only 1/2 class bump).

So, the change to the modifications page would be as follows:
3a) Tires with DOT wear rating 200 or greater CHANGE TO: "Tires with DOT wear rating of 201 or greater" 0 pts.

3b) Tires with DOT wear rating less than 200 but greater than 100 = 25 pts CHANGE TO: Tires with DOT wear rating less than 201 but greater than 100 = 50 pts.

3c) Tires with DOT wear rating less than 101 but greater than 49 = 50 pts CHANGE TO: Tires with DOT wear rating less than 101 but greater than 49 = 100 pts.

3d) Tires with DOT wear rating less than 50 = 100 pts CHANGE TO: Tires with DOT wear rating less than 49 = 150 pts

3e) Racing slicks or tires with no wear rating = 175 pts CHANGE TO: Racing slicks or tires with no wear rating = 200 pts

Tire technology continues to improve performance and our mapping of points for AX hasn't kept up in a very long time. The GGR PAX (factored) results for "R" compounds (less than 50 DOTs...Hoosiers, Kuhmo V710, etc.) suggest they are well above the curve with very high results that are disproportionate to the talented drivers using good street tires. I have talked to dozens of active autocrossers and many have suggested an even harder hit to the sticky tires, but this proposal is for a more modest step towards equality. I've been active for over 14 years with GGR and have used quite a few street brands and 2 of the top "R" compounds and indeed, tires have improved greatly.

EXCEPTION TO THE RULE: Since the tire manufacturers market their tires with their own DOT ratings, there are many inconsistencies when using those numbers. For instance, BFG Rivals, Bridgestone RE11 series and the Dunlop Z series at 200 DOT are at least as good if not better than the street tires advertising 140 - 180 DOT. I can vouch for the BFG Rivals and the TireRack tests support this groups results as well. However, there is currently one outlier that has people talking - the Michelin PS Cup 2 rated at 180 and in the middle of the street tire numbers. It is way off base with regard to the DOT tag. It's very, very good and "belongs" in the less than 101 rated tire at 100 pts. This proposes an exception for the Michelin PS Cup 2 to rate it specifically at 100 pts.

thank you,

Ken Jones
#44, '73 911 E Targa - AX10

Ken Jones
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: Pleasant Hill

Re: Rules proposal for 2015

Post by Ken Jones » Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:35 am

... just checking in. Is there anything going on? Discussion.... rejection... approval... delay... retrial?
#44, '73 911 E Targa - AX10

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mikekoozmin
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:40 pm
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Re: Rules proposal for 2015

Post by mikekoozmin » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:20 am

Where do we find the rules proposals and how do we vote on them?

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Dan Thompson
Posts: 746
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:18 pm
Location: Auburn, CA

Re: Rules proposal for 2015

Post by Dan Thompson » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:38 pm

Any results?
Who were this year's DEC members, when was the meeting?
Dan Thompson
GGR DE/TT/CR Racecontrol

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